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Appeals court upholds ban on Bible distribution to fifth-graders
By JIM SALTER
Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, August 22, 2007
ST. LOUIS (AP) — A federal appeals court on Tuesday upheld a lower court ruling that prohibited the distribution of Bibles to grade school students in a southern Missouri school district.

At issue was a long-held practice at South Iron Elementary School in Annapolis, 120 miles southwest of St. Louis, in which Gideons International representatives came to fifth-grade classrooms and gave away Bibles. A U.S. district judge issued a temporary injunction, and a three-judge panel of the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis agreed the classroom distribution should be prohibited.

Parents of some students first raised concerns about the Bible distribution in 2005. That fall, the school board voted 4-3 to allow the distribution to continue, even though then-Superintendent Homer Lewis, at the urging of the district’s insurance carrier and attorney, suggested an end to the practice. A day after the vote, the Gideons came to the school and distributed Bibles to both fifth-grade classrooms.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed suit in February 2006 on behalf of four sets of parents, asking that the district be stopped “from further endorsement of religion.”

All four sets of parents are Christian, said Tony Rothert, legal director of the ACLU office in St. Louis.

“Their objection is they don’t want the school telling their children what their religious beliefs should be,” Rothert said. “They believe that should be done at home with the family.”

Rothert said the ACLU is asking the district court to issue a permanent injunction banning the Bible distribution program.

Mathew Staver, president of Liberty Counsel, a conservative law group based in Florida that represented the school district, said the appeals court ruling concerned a practice no longer in place.

Staver said the district’s current policy allows people or groups to distribute literature — with approval from the district — before or after school or during lunch break, but not in the classrooms. The new policy is open to religious groups beyond the Gideons, he said, and is the subject of a pending court ruling at the district court level.

“That policy we will vigorously defend because we believe it’s a constitutionally sound policy,” Staver said. “It will provide for others, including the Gideons, the right to distribute literature.”

The district in Iron County has fewer than 500 students and just two schools — the grade school and South Iron High School. The rural county sits in the heart of the nation’s so-called Bible Belt and includes dozens of churches.

Gideons International, based in Nashville, Tenn., distributes more than 63 million Bibles worldwide each year, according to the organization’s Web site. A spokesman did not return a phone call seeking comment.



On the Net:

ACLU of Eastern Missouri: www.aclu-em.org

Gideons International: http://www.gideons.org

Liberty Counsel: www.lc.org

South Iron School District: http://schoolweb.missouri.edu/southiron.k12.mo.us
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Reader Comments Reader Comments (108)
The comments below are from readers and do not represent the views of the Daily Journal
ridiculous posted on Friday, September 21st, 2007 at 7:00 pm
No kidding, instead of worrying about bibles being distribuated, let's worry abotu things that are harmful. No wonder out schools are going down the drain and shootings happen.
Look posted on Wednesday, September 19th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I know that there are several people that may disagree with me, about this, but don't you all think we have more things to worry about in schools than about bibles being distributed? We have pregnancy, drug abuse, unruly behaviors, killings, etc. However, I do believe that the child should learn about the bible and religion outside of the school system. That is what Church is for. If your child was baptist, would you want your child to receive a mormon or Jehovias (sp) Witness bible at school? I know i would not if the child were mine. In today's society, we never know what is going to happen to our children when they leave out the door for school or to go to a friend's house to play.
anamolous propagation posted on Saturday, September 15th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Great! Pass out condoms and ban Bibles. I've got an idea, let's "teach" the kids how to use them-Bibles-to prevent unwanted pregancy, disease etc and allow the kids to check them out and return when used. They'll become literate, wise and later in life productive members of society. Now that I think of it, we should mandate the reading of "religious/spiritual" writings/publications in English/literature. Last I recall there was a Genre for such writings as well as Harry Potter-now everyone gets their way and we are all better for it!!
Locke posted on Saturday, September 15th, 2007 at 11:55 am
I think if we look at the history of the idea of "freedom of religion," we will find that the founders were not hostile to the idea of religion at all. The point was that by using reason as the basis of govt, then religion in the public sphere, in terms of governing, was irrelevant. They put this in the Constitution because of all of the people in Europe killing each other for not being Lutherans or Catholics, etc. The Treaty of Westphalia settled all of that. Passing out Bibles in the schools does not promote sectarian violence (Protestants are not going to kill Catholics over the Gideons) and therefore, does not really go against the founder's intent in the Constitution. In addition, the wall between church and state was not breached by state employees. The teachers were not passing out Bibles.
cookie posted on Wednesday, September 12th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Tocookie, But I like kool-aid! ;- )
Demosthenes posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
My favorite part of the Bible is when God tells the Israelites to go and kill every man woman and child in the land of Canaan after Moses leads them just outside of Jericho. It was like "baby's first genocide."
Allister Crowley posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
They should let me pass out my books at public schools...
The Decider posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Wow... There's people out there like you, Shocked? I personally find a children's book a little less dangerous than the blunted, under-informed, over-expressed instrument that is your thought process. Let's only hope that it's not as infectious as it is oblivious.
To Cookie posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
You should be careful who you listen to. And... oh, by the way, if I were you, I wouldn't drink the Kool Aid either.
Chuck a father who cares posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
First of all what about freedom of religion, and second of all should'nt the majority rule, the parents of the children who did not want the bibles should have said no thank you but let those who wanted them have the oppertunity to take them. The ACLU DEFENDS MAMBLA, that should tell you what their charater is about, if they want to lower the age of consent to persue their pervertions because a few people agree with it and the majority don't, will that happen next. The point is the ACLU is paid by tax dollars, they make money but persuing cases any attorney with a conscience won't, The ACLU does not care about morales, sfaety of children, education, no, they care about making a quick buck, the schools need to say enough is enough, band together, follow gods will, put them bibles in the classroom, unity in numbers.
cookie posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Christian mom...No I don't believe everything a person says. However, you were not present at the meeting, nor did you see this speaker for yourself, so you do not have a leg to stand on in making that comment. I respected what the man had to say. He was a very educated man who had lots of experience to share on this very controversial hp subject. No, I don't believe everything a person says, nor do I immediately dismiss a person's testimony or viewpoint just because theirs differs from mine.
cookie posted on Monday, September 10th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Christian Mom...No I'm not 12...are you?! Man, you're getting awfully defensive with the whole hp thing! As long as you're providing alternative books for kids to read other than hp, I don't have a problem with it. hp just shouldn't be the only option, nor should it be praised or emphasized anymore than the other choices available for reading. If it is being overemphasized, then that's discrimination!
Hannah posted on Sunday, September 9th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
I am sure that if these were Harry Potter books or the Koran the goverment would have already passed the law.
Locke posted on Friday, September 7th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
How did you all get on this Harry Potter thing? Are the Gideons giving away Harry Potter books in Annapolis?
Christian mom and teacher posted on Friday, September 7th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Did I say I force my students to read Harry Potter? NO! But I encourage students to read PERIOD! In fact I do not een mention it in my class...I teach 1st grade! Do you believe everything one man says? I would hate to think I was that gullible! Just because this "satan priest" said something about the Harry Potter books, means NOTHING. There are a lot of people out there who say a lot of things that should never even be thought! I don't know any teachers who thinks a student should like something just because they do. But we do think students should learn and study about many things. What are you? 12?
cookie posted on Friday, September 7th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
At a meeting one time a few years back, we listened to its guest speaker, who was an ex-satanist high priest. He had nothing but BAD things to say about harry potter. He said that the spells found in the books are actual real spells used by real witches. Hmmmm...I say Christians have no business reading the hp books. There are a lot of other good books to choose from and I don't think educators should discriminate against those students who prefer not to get in on the hp craze and read the books! Just because an educator likes hp doesn't mean his/her students should, nor should they be expected to!
Scott posted on Friday, September 7th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Public schools are not godless by Supreme Court decree. Public schools are secular, as are all public institutions in the United States. If you don't understand why, you should consult the U.S. Constitution and read the Federalist Papers (if you've ever heard of those). The United States is not a theocracy, despite what you idiotic, superstitious bible-thumpers might want to believe.
Doesn't the Bible say posted on Thursday, September 6th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
that perfect love casts out all fear? If that is so, why do so many people who profess Christ seem so terrified of everything? Why does a work of fiction, like the Harry Potter series, send them into such a frenzy? If their love is perfect, I can't see why they'd be so fearful of everything.
Home School Mama posted on Thursday, September 6th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Here's the second part of my post to "Christian mom and teacher." As Christians, we are called upon to share the Gospel with the lost. That IS NOT a job for children; it is a job for mature Christians. Government schools are godless by Supreme Court decree. Any effort to study God's word and His ways in government schools can only happen covertly, or until such time as the ACLU and other cranks start in with their lawsuits. The odds are far greater that Christian children in government schools will stray from God than end up persuading the lost to seek a relationship with Jesus and persuade others to embrace Christ-like qualities. I homeschool my children joyfully and unapologetically, and without guilt or fear that the decision to homeschool them may later be a source of regret. Can parents of government-schooled kids say the same?
Home School Mama posted on Thursday, September 6th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
A 2-part post to "Christian mom and teacher." You consistently write "Christian" with a lower case "c" instead of acknowledging the followers of Christ as a proper noun; no such slight is made when writing the praises of Harry Potter. Carelessness, or disrepect? And would that you give at least such high praise to our Lord and His word as you lavish on the fiction of J.K. Rowling. "We bow our heads at lunch, we discuss God daily..we just cannot teach it to the children." Interesting quote. Who or what is "it?" You appear to refer to our Heavenly Father as "it." What is the difference between "discussing God daily" and teaching about God daily? Also troubling: you speak in the past tense, saying "I have taught my children about Jesus." Studying God's word and growing in Christ is an ongoing, life-long process.
Christian mom and teacher posted on Wednesday, September 5th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
To Home School Mama: Now wait a minute here! All public schools are not GODLESS! Isn't God everywhere?!?!? In fact, at our school, all of the teachers except maybe 3-4 are christians. We bow our heads at lunch, we discuss God daily..we just cannot teach it to the children. I was very offended at your comment "slum culture and whore couture"! As a christian, isn't it our job to reach out to the lost? I have taught my children about Jesus and they go to school as fine examples of christians. Maybe if there were fewer home schooled christians, there would be more chrisians in the schools. Also, do you think my children go to and from school and never see anyone but the kids in their class. We go to church 2-3 times a week. They have lots of extended family of all ages.
To Shocked!!! posted on Wednesday, September 5th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
I know plenty of christians that read Harry Potter. It is a book of fiction!!! it is not teaching your kids how to actually levitate...and it was a feather...not a spoon.
To Shocked posted on Wednesday, September 5th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
If you are chastizing people for reading Harry Potter, then I am going to assume that you do nothing wrong. Do you read/watch anything where people murder, do drugs or do anything that the Bible says not to? Do you never have an impure thought? In your post, you are being judgemental. The only one to Judge is God. I am a Christian. I read Harry Potter. I also know that it is fantasy, as is Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia all which have withes, wizards and magic in them. I also know that I am not perfect, nor will I ever be. Please, learn to be tolerent and think before you speak. Also, know which you are speaking of lest you be made a fool.
someone who has a life posted on Wednesday, September 5th, 2007 at 9:15 am
oh my goodness people when are you going to all get lives and stop commenting on here you guys all have something to say about one thing or another and all you do is sit here and put it on the internet grow up and get out of your house my goodness get a freaking hobbie there is nothing that you people can do about any of these situations and its funny cause all of you comment on like each story you people are pathetic!!!!!
Home School Mama posted on Tuesday, September 4th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Concerns over socialization is another one of those arguments against homeschooling that just doesn't hold water. Homeschoolers are exposed to the broader world around them, and interact with a wide variety of age groups; children who are educated in an institutional setting spend 7 hours a day in constant contact with other children their age. You want to talk about a culture shock: perhaps the reason so many young adults have a hard time adapting to the adult world is that they've spent most of their life emulating and seeking affirmation from their peers. I would much prefer my children be fluent in God's word and be armed with a strong classical education, rather than have them be current with who's who in slum culture and whore couture. Homeschooling's not necessarily for everyone; but certainly we can do better than godless government schools.
Christian mom and teacher posted on Sunday, September 2nd, 2007 at 9:01 am
To HOME SCHOOL MAMA: If your children are thriving then I am 100% supportive of your decision to home school. In fact, with the problems out there, I considered it myself. However, there are a HUGE number of children out there who are hurting from the program. Some parents are too lazy to keep up, others are inadequately educated themselves. Again...Hurray for you and your children! Now here's my other concern, how are they socially? And please do not say that they meet all types at church activities. There is a huge part of our society that is not represented at these activities and unfortunately, our children will live in this community so they need to be aware of them now. Part of the problem with home schooled kids is when the parents throw them back into public school after years at home. Talk about culture shock!
Christian mom and teacher posted on Sunday, September 2nd, 2007 at 8:53 am
To "SHOCKED" it is apparent that you are one of those I was talking about who have never read the Harry Potter books. What makes Oz a classic and Harry evil? They both have wizzards and witches, they both have potions and magic, they both have evil characters. In fact, they both have a child raised by an aunt and uncle who dreams of a better life. The main difference is the inability to perform sophisticated special effects when Oz was filmed. Thank God it is only He who will judge and he is more intelligent than all of us together. God knows my heart and for your information I have no shame in supporting a book that has improved our country's literacy problems. CHILDREN MUST READ SOMETHING BEFORE THEY CAN READ THE BIBLE. IF HARRY ENCOURAGES THIS...GO FOR IT!
To:Hannah posted on Saturday, September 1st, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Hannah, dont let them get you down.....the DJ is not posting all replies, I posted one in your favor last night. They are trying to manipulate the direction of the comments.
I support Hannah posted on Saturday, September 1st, 2007 at 1:08 am
I think Hannah got to a couple of you. No need to say that you are an atheist, it shows.
Shocked. posted on Friday, August 31st, 2007 at 8:04 pm
To Christian Mom and Teacher: Shame of you for encouraging the Harry Potter books and stating you are a Christian. No Christian I know does this. The Wizard of Oz is a classic that does not give you directions on how to make "potions" or how to "levitate" a spoon with your mind. Why open the mind of your children to these things? Why make them curious to the darker side of evil/magic? If the minds of our children can be open to wonder about these things, what will they be wondering about next. Praying to Satan, maybe. Remember, you will reap what you sow.
Home School Mama posted on Friday, August 31st, 2007 at 3:56 pm
To "Christian Mom and Teacher", I don't wish to knock a sister in Christ, and I am grateful for Christian teachers in the government schools...government school children need all the salt and light they can get. But, I must tell you, by now, the "hazards of homeschool" debate is pretty much over. Homeschoolers consistently outperform their institutionally educated counterparts on SATs, ACTs, and other objective criteria. A generation of kids has grown up as homeschoolers, and are now homeschooling their kids. Those most resistant to homeschooling think that it needs to be like "public school at home." It is not. I am blessed to live in a town with a vibrant, thriving homeschool community. These children are excelling, and colleges are actively seeking to enroll homeschoolers. Trust that God will bless our efforts to educate our kids in His word and His ways.
reply to to Hannah posted on Friday, August 31st, 2007 at 10:29 am
How much of the bible have you read? Tell me what verse says: He who doesn't believe take the sword to him. Just wondering....
cookie posted on Friday, August 31st, 2007 at 9:26 am
To Hannah: Since you say you've read a lot of the Bible, I wonder if you've read these verses: "For (of course) every house is built and furnished by someone, but the Builder of all things and the Furnisher (of the entire equipment of all things) is God (Hebrews 3:4)." Or how 'bout this one: "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no God' (Psalm 14:1a)."
Dickins Cider posted on Friday, August 31st, 2007 at 1:55 am
Let's have a book fair... Harry Potter vs. The Bible and see who wins. At least maybe then someone will be reading something. I am like Locke, take away the books and nobody is reading nothing. Ever wonder why your order always gets screqwed up at the drive thru - this is why.
CHristian mom and teacher posted on Thursday, August 30th, 2007 at 7:35 am
OH, and something else.."Scott"... I agree with you on one thing...sadly, our nation is NOT a christian nation, but it once was and will be again. THANK GOD!
christian mom and teacher posted on Thursday, August 30th, 2007 at 7:32 am
"Scott" You make me sick. You are as ignorant as you are pathetic. Just remember(well, maybe you've never heard this before...it's in that bible I've been "thumping")one day EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD. Yes, this includes you, your knees and your tongue. If you really think christianity is just superstition, I feel sorry for you. GOD IS EVERYWHERE. Once you open your eyes, you don't even have to look for him. He makes his presence known. He has tried with you, but you have turned your back on him. I will pray for you and perhaps one day you will see me in Heaven and thank me for my prayers. But I don't do it for you, I do it for Jesus and the fact that he died for YOU as well as me.
To Hannah posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Yeah, because without religion we couldn't possibly be moral people... It's not like the school's rules aren't arranged around ethical principles to begin with or anything... Oh! Also, isn't the bible the same book that tells those kids that if they don't obey their parents, that they'll take them to the city gates and stone them to death? Oh, and isn't it the same book that says "he that believeth not in me, take the sword to him"? So, maybe we'll have a school shooting for poor little Ahmed in the 3rd row. Yeah, the bible is ALL about loving others, flowers, and bunnies isn't it? I'm an atheist and it seems like I've read more of it than you have.
Wanderer posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
I stole a Gideon's Bible out of a raunchy hotel in Jamaica New York. You could hear the prostitutes howling through the walls next door. I figured that whoever got my room next was only hoping that the sheets wouldn't be soiled. They wouldn't miss that Bible I took. And I'm hear to tell you. It worked miracles for me. I was a drunk, strung out on meth... hell, I was cookin' some up in that very same room where I got that Bible. The next thang I knew, it all went blank and I woke up in a hospital. I heard "pick Brownie, he'll do OK and the next thang you know, I was in charge of vacuatin' New Orleans and I could never have done it without that Bible and that is my testimony."
The Decider posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Keep religion out of my schools and I promise I'll keep thought out of your churches.
The Decider posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
To "sad" Not all people believe this world belongs to your "god". Shed no tears over my immortal soul, I shan't be needing them. I am not so egotistical that I believe I somehow deserve infinite life; if anything, knowing that life is finite encourages me to make the most out of what I have left. Not to "save the good stuff" for after oblivion.
Dickins Cider posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
" I cannot believe people who live on God's earth are fighting over His Word. " Shows how informed you are. God's children from the marriage of Abraham and Rachel and God's children from Abraham and Rahab have been kickin each others a$$es for centuries. If they'll fight over his earth, they'd surely quarrell over his word.
MAC Student posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
They were passing out bibles at MAC last semester... at Where was the law then? Where was the press? This type of thing goes on more than you think, in any place that they think they can get away with it, and I personally find it disturbing. I agree with Locke in that no one is FORCING the 5th graders to actually read them. (which is unlikely they would anyways) but I believe that it simply reinforces that Christianity is the 'norm' and in a country where we have freedom of religion this is unacceptable. People should seek religion for themselves, not have it thrown in their faces and think that the establishment encourages this type of persuasion. Face it, they were there to convert and secure members of their faith, and their faith condemns all others. Not at all what I would consider legal.
Scott posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Religion is superstition. Keep your idiotic superstitions out of the public schools. If children can be "trained" in Christian practices by Gideons in public schools, then why not have imams funded by Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia train our children in Islam, using Korans in our public schools. You bible-thumpers don't realize it could happen once you open the door to religious instruction in public schools. The United States is not a "Christian nation." It is a federal republic.
sad posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
I cannot believe people who live on God's earth are fighting over His Word.
your life is a Bible posted on Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 9:54 am
This thread is getting to be a religious debate but its about Bible's being handed out at school. A public school is PUBLIC. Anything about that word you don't understand? That means we have people of all race and denominations going to one place to learn the basic for life. It would be much better to make ourself the example of truth rather than leaving it to the school system to teach. Its NOT their job! Keep your Bibles at home, carry it in your daily life and and how you live it and we won't need to pass Bibles out, we can be a Bible ourself.
Myk20 posted on Tuesday, August 28th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
The United States Constitution prohibits religous activity in any form to be connected to government! The last time we mixed faith with government people were beheaded and burned at the stake! And, whose beliefs should we teach? There are a lot of Jews and Muslims in this country, how would you feel about them teaching your children their beliefs. Okay, so maybe we can just teach Christian principles. BUT WAIT! Whose? Cathloics? Baptists? Pentecostals? Lutherans? Many have choosen no denomination at all. You can clearly see the problem, or maybe YOU can't but, the framers did! Thank GOD!
Locke posted on Tuesday, August 28th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
In addition, the way it looks we will be in Iraq for years and years. The only hope we have of getting out is if we have to move our troops into Iran. Our children should have to read something from the Koran. If for no other reason than so they will at least know somethign about the people that our own country will ask them to kill when they get drafted.
Locke posted on Tuesday, August 28th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
So, who cares if kids get copies of the Koran. I am cool with that. I've read it. One thing I can say is that the Muslim faith is more tolerant than they make it out to be. Like the Jews, those who practice Islam are also descendants of Abraham (something that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all have in common). Unlike bin Laden, the Koran says be kind to the people "of the Book" (meaning Jews and Christians). According to my reading of it, the Muslims seem very tolerant. Here is the problem: The "Imams" don't believe that translations can convey the same meaning and that it must be read in its original language (this should sound familiar to Protestants who know why the King James came about). This way, they have control. It's their own war on literacy.
Hannah posted on Tuesday, August 28th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Yea, why would we want to pass out a book that tells kids to obey their parents,respect their authorities,show love to all,stop lying,cheating,hating,killing,cussing, getting drunk? I might also mention the concern that this book might give hope to some of these hurting kids. They might find comfort in a God who loves them. Another shocking thing, since they don't know about God, they might read the bible and believe in him! Shocking! Yea, we should be afraid. Instead let's pass the drug,perversion, and witchcraft books around. That's safer. : )
take another look posted on Tuesday, August 28th, 2007 at 9:01 am
Locke said >>>>>>>" I am disappointed that no one is talking about the middle ground on this issue. Most of the comments I read have either been from religious zealots or folks who want to keep religion out of public life. These Gideons are not shoving anything anywhere. They are giving away books. They don't make you read them. Surely if Bank of America can give away shirts to college students to get them to use them for student loans, then the Gideons can give away books. There are no church and state issues here. There is no coercion here. It is just an assault on literacy and bad judgement on the part of the courts. If some other group wanted to come and give away books, why not let them? Isn't that diversity? Isn't that what mulitculturalism is all about? "
? posted on Tuesday, August 28th, 2007 at 8:26 am
We all must remember that if the good book can be passed then so can other books. I agree promoting literacy is wonderful but how would you feel if your child came home with the Koran? In all fairness, if the Christian bible can be passed out so can others.
I got one posted on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
One of my prized items as a child was the green New Testament I got from a Gideon's distribution at school. Thirty years later, I still carry it in my purse. It wasn't forced upon anyone at school. At recess time, the gentlemen sat at table with the principal and whatever students would like to have one could approach the table and have one. Some of us wanted one, others didn't--there was no coercion either way. I appreciate the work of the Gideon society in all its many forms.
Locke posted on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
I am disappointed that no one is talking about the middle ground on this issue. Most of the comments I read have either been from religious zealots or folks who want to keep religion out of public life. These Gideons are not shoving anything anywhere. They are giving away books. They don't make you read them. Surely if Bank of America can give away shirts to college students to get them to use them for student loans, then the Gideons can give away books. There are no church and state issues here. There is no coercion here. It is just an assault on literacy and bad judgement on the part of the courts. If some other group wanted to come and give away books, why not let them? Isn't that diversity? Isn't that what mulitculturalism is all about?
take another look posted on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
We send our children to school to learn the basics that will get them a head start in the working world. Teachers have enough on their plate without having to teach religion too. The books coming to school was ,IMO, someones ideal of a good thing but religion is something that is a wide range of opinions and so religion should be kept outside the school room. If we allow one religion in, then we have to give rights to the others and before one knows it, we have a snowball rolling out of control. Lets teach what is expected in the school room and leave the family opinion of who and what God is to the parenting at home. I don't want my child having a Holy War at school when he/she needs to be learning other things.
Get A Clue posted on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
With this being said remember folks there is no ice water in Hell.
Home town boy S.B. posted on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Wow. I knew I grew up in the Bible Belt, but wow. I won't dignify answering the difference between fantasy(Harry Potter) and spirituallity (God) because it wouldn't matter to the ingnorant fundamentalists. Their rage is fed by their ignorance. But to all of you: We do not want any, I repeat, ANY government involvement in the promotion of relegion or spirituallity. To ask for that is to ask for a dark day. When you pray, do not do as the hypocrits do. Go into your room, lock the door and pray to the father. Do not make a show.
cookie posted on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Rugratz, I am glad to hear that it wasn't totally banned...that part is good news. Thanks for reading the whole article in its entirety, to the very end for us! There is still a ray of hope. To Everyone Who Cares to Read This: The public school system needs our prayers. Kudos to all the Christian educators in public schools! My hat's off to all of you...and thanks for your willingness to be on the front lines for the sake of God's Kingdom!
Marsha posted on Sunday, August 26th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
These four parents claim to be Christian, IMPOSSIBLE.... They are only fooling themselves, sad.
Christian mom and teacher posted on Sunday, August 26th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
To "MO TEACHER" I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else did, too. BUT...the truth is... it is NOT "MY WAY OR NO WAY" like you said we think. It is "GOD'S WAY IS THE ONLY WAY!" Homeschool is not the answer. If you have ever tried to teach a previously home schooled child everything that he/she has missed just to catch them up to level....you'd understand. Home schooling parents: your heart may be in the right place...but are you REALLY qualified to teach every subject in depth? I am a teacher of math and I would NEVER try to teach my own children history or language arts. There is a reason teachers must have a college degree to teach in their content area. PLEASE rethink your decisions about homeschooling. If you don't believe me, at least ask other teachers, I think they will agree with me.
Brett21 posted on Sunday, August 26th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
GOOD! It's illegal and they should be arrested! What happened tp the days when we used to invite people to church and teach them. Why do we now look for ways to constantly cram religion down the throats of the American people! That is un-American at it's very core. You can't teach your personal beliefs in public schools! Not everyone shares the same beliefs and that is their right as an AMERICAN!
Wanda posted on Sunday, August 26th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Children are not bringing hand guns to school because of lack of God. 9 times out of 10 these troubled kids have the worst home life ever imaginable. I believe in seperation of church and state. This is a PUBLIC school. If you want UR child to learn about God, then take them to a school of UR personal beliefs. There are Catholic, Christian and all different types of schools to choose from. Accept people have different religious backgrounds and RESPECT that fact! U wanna give out bible, do it at Walmart or another puplic place where the child is with their parents. A fifth grader is not Cognitively able to understand any type of bible at this age. I know my 5th grader is not ready to make such a decision about God yet, so stop pushing it on her!
get a clue posted on Sunday, August 26th, 2007 at 9:29 am
There's only one thing to say! You wonder why kids are bringing guns into the schools. Why kids are hating each other. Why kids are doing drugs and committing crimes. Let the Bible and Gods word ring through the halls of the schools. If the parent won’t put the fear of God into the children then the school should be held responsible. Someone needs to lead our children in the right way.
Annomous posted on Saturday, August 25th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
For your perusal regarding (at least) Thomas Jefferson's opinion on the separation of church and state: Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
MO TEACHER posted on Saturday, August 25th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
What's at issue is not sep. of church and state or freedom of religion. The issue is if you allow one group to hand out literature, you must allow all groups to do so. This includes all other religious beliefs, political ideologies, and any other special interest groups. The true hypocrites are the "Christians" who say it's "My way or no way." Do you people really think that when you get to the "Pearly Gates," God is going to specify only the Baptists or only the Methodists? I don't think so. Jesus was Jewish, remember that.
pofolks posted on Saturday, August 25th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Author Unknown "Dear God, Why didn't you save the little girl killed in her classroom?" Sincerely, Concerned Student... Could the reply be: "Dear Concerned Student, I am not allowed in schools." Sincerely, God.
observer posted on Saturday, August 25th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Many school libraries have the Bible on the shelf a well as the Koran, Book of Islam, etc. Christianity and Salvation is based on forgiveness of sins and a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Home schooling is not the answer to every school "situation." The Gideons do a wonderful work in all areas, and not being able to pass out Bibles to a 5th grade class is not the end of the world. Bibles are readily available to students by checking it out in the school library. Good Christians will have many in their homes available to their child whenever he/she wants to read it.
Christian mom and teacher posted on Saturday, August 25th, 2007 at 9:08 am
I'm a christian, mother, teacher and Harry Potter fan. Many are commenting on Harry Potter like it came directly from the devil. Everyone I have heard talk bad about the books/movies have never actually read/watched them! If they have, they would see that like most good stories, there is a struggle of good vs evil and in the end good always prevails. "But they have witches and wizzards...ooooh evil!" What about "The Wizard of Oz"? What about Halloween? Unfortunately, there IS evil..our children NEED to learn about it! These books have been the reason many children have become interested in reading...then want to read the bible someday. STOP BASHING HARRY! Research and do homework before you open your mouths! YES it is possible to be a Harry fan and a christian! NO it's not possible to support the killing of children(anyone who votes for abortions/democrats) and christian!
Jael posted on Saturday, August 25th, 2007 at 8:59 am
The public school system is beyond repair. Every God fearing American should pull their children out of these public cesspools, and send them to Christian School or Homeschool them. We also need to fight to defund public education, and allow families to make their own choices regarding the education of their children.
good father posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
I belive that religion begins at home. It is their mother and my responsiblilty to do this not a teacher or some other student. I am a believer in God but I don't want someone giving my child a bible or pushing their beliefs on them. Its just like the ones that knock on my door. If I say no I mean no so don't try to push your religion on me or my family. I respect everyones right to live how they live, love whom they want, and worship how they choose. If I want religion at school I would send my children to a religious school. Let them learn math, reading, spelling, music, art and I will teach God to them and let them make their own decisions.
Rugratz2 posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Hey, folks ... lighten up! The Bible distribution is not forever gone. It is just not allowed inside the classrooms. It is still allowed before and after school and at recess. If a kid wants a Bible, he/she can still get one. Someone is not reading the entire article.
hypocrisy posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
is what these lawsuits are based on. This wasn't the first time Bibles were handed out. One of the parents on the lawsuit has 2 kids in high school. When HER kids were in the 5th grade, they rec'd Bibles but did she complain at that time? By the way she was also on the school board at that time as well! NOW she complains? A true Christian would want the Bible passed out to everyone! It is that person's CHOICE wether or not to read it!
lambert posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 11:31 am
What r we doing!! The other families need to take a stand for God. If we real Christians do not start speaking up our world will continue to go down the wrong pathm
Dave posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 9:34 am
While I agree that is sad and ridiculous that we have come to this as a nation, I am not surprised. Any believer indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is a student of the Bible knows that this is exactly what it says will happen. Rather rant and whine about it, I state my opposition by homeschooling my children. We should never have abdicated our children's education to the state in the (first place. If you really want to make a statement - deny yourself, sacrifice your career and comfort, and pull them out of public school. Real education starts with the parents. "Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.'" John 18:35-37) Love not the world.
Chris Kirkman posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 9:12 am
The parents say they are Christians but this is not so. A true Christian would never interfere with the spreading of the Gospel. PRAY FOR OUR ENEMIES.
LD posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Steve, where in our Constitution are the words "separation," "church" or "state"? Nowhere. However, I believe the words do appear in the Soviet Constitution. Maybe you should move there. The First Amendment actually says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" When did this school become Congress? When did it become law to hand out the bibles? Steve, your ignorance is a glowing example of the failure of our liberal, public school system. Thank you for your testimony!
chris posted on Friday, August 24th, 2007 at 8:02 am
I think if people were a little more worried about morrallity and God our country wouldn't be going down the drain. I agree with the other people parents who are true christians wouldn't object to their children getting bibles at school. That is why our society is so full of hate , and love has gone away. maybe these parents should go look in our childrens library and see how there is lititure on everything from witchcraft to buddism, and santinism, but not the bible.
just curious posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Why does the opinion of 4 parents (who claim christianity, but do not want to share it obviously) take priority over the 50 or more other sets of parents and their rights for their children to have the bible?
Mr. Nobody posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 10:44 pm
More evidence that the communistic founded ACLU is a bunch of Vandals out to destroy the cultural artifacts of Western Civilization. Not only is the Bible a holy book, it is a Great Book of literature with common stories handed down from generation to generation for thousands of years. As to handing out a Heathen's bible, as some smart aleck swag suggested, I have no fear of that. One is a Great Book and the other is pulp fiction. Thou shall have no fear when I walk through the valley of evil.
manuel posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 9:42 pm
whomever these parents are, they are NOT Christians.
pamela posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 9:10 pm
I would truly like to know just what "Christian" faith these families say they are. There is no way in God's name Bible believing Christians would want the Good Living Word banned.
Elijah posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Notice that the 4 groups of parents are supposed to be Christians. No wonder this nation has gone to hell in a handbag with supposed Christians such as this.
Tabby posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm
I think the children should be asked first if they would like a Bible. Has anyone stopped to ask the children how they feel about Bibles being handed out in school? If they want one give them one but if the child says no then leave it alone and don't try to force it upon them. I personally don't like to talk about religion when I'm at collage and I don't like other peoples beliefs pushed upon me. Yes, I love and believe in God but I don't want other peoples views pushed on me at school and maybe those kids don't want it pushed upon them either. I just think a 5th grader should be able to chose if they would like the Bible given to them or not.
LT posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 4:37 pm
One day there will be a Judge that will right all these wrongs and will give all people who love the lie and live the lie as if it were true His justice. They laugh now, they manipulate the truth, they twist the law to keep the lie going, but their unbelief won't change the Truth. There is only one Truth no matter how much people would love for there to be many. Those of us to know the Truth need to pray for these people who are blind that our merciful Savior will reveal His Truth to them before it is too late. None of us deserve heaven...none, but thank God we can go because Jesus paid our fine for breaking the Law. The end is near...turn away from the lies you tell yourself and the lies of this world and beg for the Savior to change your heart.
Locke posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I believe in evolution, global warming, secular humanism, reason and all that stuff that many of you condemn in this blog. I even like Harry Potter. However, even I am ashamed that this verdict occurred. If people want to give children books and encourage them to read, I am cool with that. In my view, that is why the Bible is important. It promotes literacy and has since it was first translated from the Latin Vulgate. Shame on the ACLU and shame on these parents. This isn't just a war on religion, it's a war on reading and a war on thinking.
Home School Mama posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 1:22 pm
This is but one of many examples why my children are homeschooled. Children have become pawns in a tug-of-war between conflicting interest groups, and we've lost the discernment to differentiate between God's Word and Satan's word. Even children who aren't Christian should be aware of the faith of our nation's Founding Fathers. Shame on the parents who are indulging in their anti-God, anti-Christian rabble rousing. Shame, shame, shame!!!
Rugratz2 posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 1:20 pm
If you read the article carefully and thoroughly ALL THE WAY TO THE END, you will see that distribution in the CLASSROOM has been discontinued, but they are still able to distribute Bibles before/after school and at recess. The kids that want Bibles will get them. Those that don't, won't.
Rugratz2 posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 1:17 pm
If you read the article carefully and thoroughly ALL THE WAY TO THE END, you will see that distribution in the CLASSROOM has been discontinued, but they are still able to distribute Bibles before/after school and at recess. The kids that want Bibles will get them. Those that don't, won't. Don't get your feathers all ruffled up before you read all the details, folks!!
Mike posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 1:13 pm
We wonder why our school systems are in such terrible shape.Stop and look what is going on,pro-choice,anti-chtistian,anything pro hate america,bow do to other groups that teach hate,nasty life styles,anything that is dispicable is ok in our class rooms.Most school systems in america do any thing they can to lead our students into a non productive life style.This PC crap will help bring down a once proud,God fearing nation into total 3rd world hell hole.
HRossArk posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 12:37 pm
When the states wanted to join the union they had to be able to read. The reason to read is that they would understand the Bible, why? So that they would know when the representatives of the country made laws that its citizens would know if the law was biblically based. Check it out, this is our history! Hey, maybe we should bring in Islam, I bet parents wouldn't mind, because Islamics are already infiltrating our universities and children's minds, I don't hear parents barking at their doors! You better worry about getting our children's mind in the Bible and ready to stand, because trouble is here! Don't be afraid of the Bible, be concerned about what's on your shores right now! Homosexuals want your children to accept them, the kids need to know about sin consequences, and parents need to witness to their children too.
Linda Bormann posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 12:32 pm
The founding fathers never intended "separation of church and state" as it is interpreted today. They only meant there would be no "state" religion. From the 1770's till well after the civil war, church services were held in the Congress, and even in the Supreme Court, every Sunday, with different pastors, and also rabbis, rotating through. Everywhere you turn in the past is evidence that the U.S. was established as a Judeo-Christian nation.
Becky posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 11:17 am
Might I remind ALL of you that the first school books in this country used for teaching reading and writing contained excerpts of scripture. Also our large Universities, such as Yale and Harvard were once Christian. This is just another example of our Country turning its back on God. Sooooooo sad! We were founded on Godly principles. http://noreligionjustjesus.blogspot.com
Becky posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 11:10 am
The article says the 4 sets of parents who went to the ACLU were "Christians". Anyone who is a true Christian would never want to stop the Bible from being given to anyone. http://noreligionjustjesus.blogspot.com
chad posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 10:18 am
Funny, ban the Bible... But teach OUR children garbage("evolution", "the big bang", "darwinism", "global warming"...)forcibly as a part of the school's required curriculum... In realization, we truly aren't THAT far ahead of 3rd world countries who dictate their citizens every facet of life!
Will posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 10:02 am
I've always said to religious zealots, I'll support your right to hand out bibles in the school if you'll support my right to hand out the Satanic Bible right alongside their bibles. Hmm, you think some parents and religious groups might get upset about that? You think the Liberty Council might sue the school if I tried to do that?
Glenn posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 10:01 am
So ... let's see if I get this right. Witchcraft, homosexual propaganda, pornography, lewd books, drugs, alcohol etc. etc.-- ARE permitted in the schools... BUT.... NO BIBLES !!! Makes perfect sense, doesn't it ? Aren't you proud to be an American ??
VB posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 am
The saddest quote from the entire story is, "All four sets of parents are Christian, said Tony Rothert, legal director of the ACLU office in St. Louis." These four sets of Christian parents are the one's who sued the school district. It's a sad day when the ACLU is running the country. Another example of people doing what is right in their "own" eyes as written in Judges 21.
Steve posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 9:46 am
The separation of Church and State has served our country well for 200+ years -- no reason to change it now.
Joe posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 9:42 am
Let us not forget that this country was born out of a Christian heritage from our forefathers who promoted bible reading during their terms in office. That is why our country has become so blessed in comparison to others. The current trends however, are leading to the removal of God's blessings.
DW posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 9:22 am
Removing bibles and Christianity is an endorsement of religion, the religion of humanism. It is a lie from the pits of hades when the ACLU people say that they don't want an endorsement or propagation of religion by government entities.
Christian posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 8:31 am
This lastest attack against Christ is another sign the End of the world is approaching. When the world calls evil good (Harry Potter) and good evil (Bible), we know that sin/evil has reached it's peak and the only thing that is left will be God's judgement. God help us!
John Q Public posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 8:19 am
No one was forced to take a Bible. The kids were given an opportunity to receive a Bible, their choice to take it or not. Besides how can the ACLU which fights so vehemently against parental notification of abortions, now argue that parents rights are so important? We should be pro-choice on the children's decision on the Bible issue.
Cheryl posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 8:08 am
It's ok to hand out Harry Potter in schools - even making it a requirement to read it which is sorcery, witchcraft and black magic. Apparently, that's what's acceptable today. When people turn from moral absolutes, we get the society we have today. What ever feels good, just do it. The question that should be posed to these parents is 'Who's making children read the bible?' no one is, they're just being passed out to the kids, no one is making them read it. They still have a choice, why not let them make it? Kids know what they want to learn - they're alot smarter than people give them credit for. Given a choice, they wouldn't be reading the trash of Harry Potter.
Kathy posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 7:48 am
Schools can give kids homosexual propaganda, but the Bible is banned by a court for distribution. What is this sick world coming to??!! I would rather my child be given a Bible any day of the week!
Archie posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 6:12 am
The bible says "Train up a child in the way that he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it" I can't imagine how a child can make a wise choice w/o being trained. How can he/she know the fear of the Lord if the very source is being denied from them. No wonder campus violence (even killings) has become a trend in US schools these days. The blood innocent children is allowed to be shed in the name of civil liberty. What a price to pay !!
Lowell posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 3:27 am
Would Mr. Staver support the distribution of the Koran as well? Didn't think so.
John posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 2:41 am
Is this the same court that has said that "illegal aliens" aren't illegal?
Rev. Spitz posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 12:57 am
The people who reject the Holy Bible bring judgment on themselves.
C D posted on Wednesday, August 22nd, 2007 at 4:39 pm
I think the children should get the Bibles if they want them. The school and other people are wrong on takeing the Bible out of school and anything else they can almost do any thing in school but the wand to Block out GOD. I think we need GOD back in the schools because that is waht is wrong today is because they took GOD out of schools. GOD Bless Them.
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